A call for help: suicide in children

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not sure what to say... but wanted to say i read this. and i want to remind people here that i have listened to suicidal teens for over 15 years now. i'd like to contribute to this discussion but right now i would rather invite someone to send me a private message or start a dialogue or email me. i want to share my experiences because i believe they are important. but im not sure the best way to do that. i would have a lot to say about the post here but i need to give it more time to process. for now i will say a couple things i guess.

i definitely would not suggest to someone to look at the positive. (see my story about the soldier for example).  this will not help the person feel understood. i would not recommend quickly talking to the parents.  very bluntly, the parents are the number one problem in all cases i have worked with, no exceptions. many children/teens are terrified of their parents, for good reason.

I personally have never heard that a child will only tell their sexual abuse story once. I would suspect if that is true the first person they told it to was not a good listener.

To correct myself a bit, if the child/teen had been raised to believe in God and heaven and hell I would ask them about their beliefs about God/heaven/hell, and *listen*. if the person was definitely talking about suicide i would ask what they thought God of suicide and again listen. A depressed/suicidal person obviously has not had someone they can confide in, so that is one thing they need. I am also not impressed with professionals. Children and teens need people who really *care* about them, who are not just seeing them for the money or for 50 minutes per week. I have often talked to teens for more than one hour per *day* -charging nothing for my time.

i would also recommend helping them connect with other young people who are depressed, because they are the only ones who will understand.

i have not felt very understood myself on aces, btw, and that is one reason i say people here are too happy and positive. and why i say i would like more people to be more depressed and to *feel* their pain instead of meditating or medicating it away.

sorry for being so blunt. i feel a bit optimistic tho that someone will relate to what i am saying and it will be worth risking offending most others who don't or who feel defensive about what i have just said.

anyhow one of the most effective things i did when i was helping a lot of suicidal teens was to create a peer support group among them. right now i am talking to a few and introducing them to each other. it is beautiful and refreshing to see how they help each other.

here is some writing about that kind of mutual support. what i call "adolescent beauty"

http://eqi.org/ei_ed22.htm

btw we have developed some guidelines on how to talk to depressed teens btw, if anyone wants a copy they can email me - stevehein at gmx.com

I would like to suggest we consider how language does or doesn't evolve. The National Council of Teachers of English Committee on Public Doublespeak addressed the "evasive language used in government, and the deceptive language used in advertising", back during Watergate era. The Journalist section of the International Society of Traumatic Stress Studies (ISTSS) may be able to offer us some guidance on this as well. I think it's extremely important to distinguish a suicide "gesture" from a suicide "attempt". I'll say why, later, if necessary.

For Everyone,

     I would like to take this opportunity to say "THANK YOU" to everyone who contributed to this stream, and for indulging me in my attempt to create a [portion of a] "Cohesive Narrative", and for all the comments which allowed me to "feel connected" and "Significant", without which, my "feeling depressed and disconnected" at this time of year might not have subsided to the point I could use my sharing of those experiences for a constructive and useful purpose, and gain some insights into how parts of "my trauma[s] are TRANS-GENERATIONAL. My mother taught us (family and neighbors) to swim based on her certification[s] in the American Red Cross Method. My Grandfather had taught her to swim (at age 3) by the "Bavarian method" (Tossing an unaccompanied infant into water -from a low bridge over a large bay (or a moving stream in the Alps). ...I hope this forthcoming (well, Hannukah is already started) Holiday Season is Joyful for all who read this.

Thank you Colette. Good advice.

Hi All,

Just reading the comments (and very sad experiences - thank-you for sharing), I thought about the language we use in respect of suicide. I read some research a while back, an Australian study of parents who had lost their children to suicide (their children ranged in age from teanagers through to 40's). I was very struck by what one of the mum's said in this research.

One of the things that hurt that mum in the aftermath and in the years since her son's death, was the lanuage used in regards to suicide (oral and written). We say "to committ suicide", as that mum said her son was not a criminal, people committ crimes, her son took his own life!

 But we continue to use the same language, committ a crime/committ suicide. I guess it's historical, as previously it was a criminal offence to take ones own life (?), society and cultures (for the most part) have moved on, but our languae has remained the same, and in some ways by continuing to use the language (committ suicide) we may be unintentionally hurting a loved one. Thought I would share this, I just think it is kinder to say the person took their own life (and as we know it is usually in response overwhelming emotions/responses).

regards,

Colette

Robert and Tina, your lived experience is so intense. I'm so sorry that you had to go through those experiences, but I am grateful that you're spending your lives making sure that others don't have to, or are that they are helped to heal early.

I thought you asserted your lived experience quite well. I was just trying to complement it, without seeming like I colluded with you, ahead of time!

I've also read fellow ACEs Connection member Chaplain Chris Haughee's article: "Attachment Theory and the Gospel explored-How relational brokenness redefines our existence" --which I think might be a useful supplement to your endeavor Linda. 

Some years ago, I had occasion to return to my "home town"...and encountered a friend...who informed me that a mutual acquaintance (raised Northern Baptist) had taken his own life, and my friend had gone to the memorial service, which was conducted by an elderly Roman-Catholic Priest from the same town. The Priest told a story (which, had the Pope known, might have brought the priest some admonishment), about a man who had recently died, who approached the gates of Heaven, and was greeted, admitted, and accompanied inside by Saint Peter. As they walked down a lengthy corridor together, they came to a door, and the  newly deceased man asked St. Peter what was inside the door. St. Peter said "Why don't you open it, and look inside.", so the deceased man did, and he saw a roomful of men all wearing Yarmulkes, and he asked St. Peter who those people were, and St. Peter advised they were Jewish, and the man said he wasn't Jewish so he wasn't going in there, and he closed the door to the room, and continued walking down the corridor with St. Peter. At the next door, he again asked St. Peter, what was in that room, and was again invited to open the door and look inside, which he did and saw men kneeling on rugs on the floor all in the same direction, with their foreheads touching the floor. He asked St. Peter who those men were, and St. Peter replied they were Moslems, whereupon the man said he wasn't a Moslem, so he couldn't go in there, and he again closed the door and continued walking the corridor, until they came to the next door. He stopped and again asked St. Peter what was in that room, and was again invited to open the door and look inside. He opened the door and saw a room full of people of all ages, standing around in assorted clothing, talking cordially with one another. He asked St. Peter who those people were. St. Peter replied: "Those are all people who committed suicide.   ........".

     I can imagine how comforting that compassionate eulogy must have been for all the surviving family, relatives, well-wishers, and friends....

     The history of Suicide, has many less compassionate actions, such as refusal to bury such persons in certain local cemeteries. 

      In my mother's case, I was "the one who found her" (at age 15). The previous night she had approached my then 12 year old sister and I, in the flower garden in our back yard. She tried to apologize for "being such a lousy mother." I said: "It sounds like you're going away, and I don't believe you'd do that, and I refuse to forgive you." The following morning as my father and I approached his car, I noticed one of his duty pistols in the car. I asked him why his gun was in the car. He never answered my question. (We both knew he had TWO handguns). When I came home from summer school with another friend, late that morning....I found my mother with the Holy Bible in one hand, my father's other pistol in her other hand, and her brains and blood all over the bedroom wall. At summer school the next day, someone said aloud: "Hey I heard your mother committed suicide yesterday, HA Ha Ha..!" to me,  and a (Roman-Catholic) classmate  of mine, who I wasn't even friends/pals with, walked over and punched out the guy who said it. My mother had been a WASP pilot during WW II, gone to Eastman School of Music at U.of R, attended church regularly singing in the choir, playing in the "handbell choir"...When her memorial service took place at our church, I didn't feel connected to hardly anyone there. I "felt" like God wasn't even there. Twenty-eight years later (of flashbacks, Anniversary dates: [going numb/"stoic" just before Mother's day, through the day/date of her suicide]; lost jobs, etc.), I ...did EMDR and stopped the flashbacks...then looked up her death certificate to ascertain where her remains were (she'd been cremated), but neither my sister or I knew where she'd been interred, and it wasn't on the death certificate...  all the "Disposition of Remains" noted was a Funeral Home that had gone out of business.....And the rest [grieving process] is another whole story in itself . That wasn't the only suicide I'd personally witnessed as a teen-ager. 

     I've twice worked for [the same multi-purpose agency] one of 62 Agencies in the U.S.--where the entire agency/programming/hotline staff is certified by the National Association of Suicidology, and part of the National Suicide Hotline network. .... I don't believe I ever got a [lethal intent] suicide call-when I worked the night shift the first time I worked there. The "hotline" was a separate department by the time I worked there again, but I worked in a different department. I did have occasion to do a "Critical Incident Stress Debriefing" with a hotline staffer.... (Interesting recent statistic: our NH 9-1-1 operators have a 30% turnover annually-even with supposed "Clinical Supervision").

Thanks Tina, good suggestion

Thank all of you for your comments. My purpose in producing this series is to alert children's ministers to the issue of suicide. So many ministers have no clue and they don't live in the type of world where a child might possibly even consider suicide. If you notice in this second post I keep saying "default to action" if you suspect at all a child might be suicidal. Get a professional involved. 

I agree with all of your points. I also would not talk to a child who I think is suicidal about God. Most children's  ministers don't know how to talk to a child in despair thus the reason for the statement, 

• Empathize with the child’s feelings. “You must really feel bad right now” is so much more helpful than “You shouldn’t say such things” or “You’ll go straight to hell if you do that (suicide).”

Please keep in mind this article is for the purpose of alerting ministers and church volunteers to the possibility. They are not professionally trained counselors or therapist (even though some think they are) and the purpose is to get professional help for the child immediately if an elementary age child is suicidal. 

Again thanks for reading and thank you for all of your comments. 

Linda

I have to say I might be jaded also but I too am hoping others will respond.  I think this is an important topic.  So I agree with everything you said Robert. I was thinking something similar.  I also wonder maybe a 9 yr old will simply feel more confused but giving "ministry" on how one is so special and how god made you and would disapprove of committing suicide without learning about the terrible circumstance the child may be in would I believe at 9 - 10 produce a very confused child. "Why am I being told that possibly hurting myself will hurt people in my life etc.... when my relatives are hurting me?.  When it seems to me that none cares?" It reminds me of when social work finally came into my beat down trailer and asked me what I did to make my parents so angry. 

I was going to be valedictorian of my High School. 

I never smoked a cigarette or did a drug

I never missed a day of school from kindergarden on

I never kissed or frankly had anything to do with a boy 

I was determined not to do anything that would get me in trouble because at the time kids were killing their parents for horrific abuse and were being sent to prison. I felt like a slave and prisoner for way to long and had already served a 17 yr sentence and did not want to serve anymore.  Fortunely for me, no one ever made me feel God would disapprove if you hurt yourself because God loves you. At 17 I lived with my HS biology teacher an atheist. That was fine with me because there had been an evolution in my thinking on this subject -- as a very young child my mind had been polluted with images from adults of Hell and Demons and I thought I had been sold by an ancestor into Hells grip due to the horrible things happening to me and  my brother.  Then I prayed to god everyday that he wouldn't let my dad kill me or my brother.  Then I got to the point where I saw religious people acting in hypocritical ways. I had two choices, believe they were possessed by sin or that there was really no such thing as God and this was a made up belief by crazy people hoping to convince themselves that by asking God for forgiveness at the last second all their mis-deeds would be forgiven.  

As a 9 yr old, I didn't want to kill myself, I wanted to kill my dad. And I was becoming to believe the whole idea of God was a sham.  As a young teen I saw both sides, the pentecostal preacher who drove me and my bro and sis at midnight to my grandma's house an hour away as she made us sit in his car on a dark winter's night and he asked her if she would give us a place to stay as we were living in the dead of winter in michigan with no money and no heat or food in a broken down trailer. I remember his anger as he came back from my stern and unconcerned Grandma (mother's mom) and said something like "I have never met such a ....itch" That made him popular in my mind. Here was a preacher who took the time to take us to his church and though I found myself and my sister laughing uncontrollably and historically the first time I saw people speaking in tongues, I knew the Randy cared and was "for real".  Then there was the mennonite who we finally went to live with for a time. His frequent and private counseling sessions with my sister always made me wonder but I was so preoccupied with my problems with basic emotional regulation that I had no idea of what was really happening there. I wish I had known, I would have tried to stop it.  So you know ministering to a kid about morality in a very unjust and immoral world just wouldn't settle well with me and at that age I would have been quiet and polite while in my mind thinking "you are out of your living mind and living on a planet separate from mine".   When you get a grip and realize the injustice me and my sibs are going through, then you can talk to me about morality. This is how I would have thought at 14... at 9 I would have just thought you were crazy. 

I am not trying to be rude. I am just explaining how I see it. And I do believe with severe persistent and early onset childhood trauma there might be a different kind of response than to simple depression. Thanks.

Having read: "Shift Your Perspective/Trauma-Informed Care: A Trauma-Informed Understanding of Suicidality" by Elizabeth Hudson, LCSW (Consultant to Wisconsin Dep't. of Health Services; employed at U. of Wisconsin-Madison), I would have reservations about using a faith-based intervention with children whose "faith" may have been shattered by a traumatic incident(s), including "Developmental trauma" occurring Neonatally through Age 3 years [and up to 45 months of age-if in proximity to domestic violence]. I personally witnessed two adult suicides before I reached the "age of majority"; and have had subsequent experience intervening in attempts by others-as an adult. These experiences may have "colored my world-view". I've also debriefed hotline workers (answering calls from the national Suicide hotline), at the conclusion of a "lethal call". I sincerely hope more members will comment, lest my "bias/world view" be of questionable validity. Thank You.